Hurtful Gay Life...?

Life Searcher · March 26, 2009

情和愛幾多哀幾度痛苦無奈無窮怨幾多冤

幾許淒然期待情和愛幾多災幾度要將人害

迷茫網一張開要你蹈進孽海幾多次枉癡心

換了幾多傷害來衝不過千般障礙剩得斷腸感慨

明明知愛有害可是我偏也期待但求得她一笑

彷彿抵上萬次災幾多次枉癡心換了幾多傷害來

衝不過千般障礙剩得斷腸感慨明明知愛有害

可是我偏也期待但求得她一笑彷彿抵萬次災

為換到她的愛甘心衝進恨海

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=TW&hl=...p;v=nlWCj71puSo

可能爱真没有任何理由，理性。你未觉得只应你未遇到或未放开你的那颗心！

插曲: 肯去承擔愛

演唱: 甄妮

早已明知對他的愛

開始就不應該

我欲願將一世交換

他一次真意對待

我是寧可抛去生命

癡心決不願改

爲了他甘心去忍受

人間一切悲哀

在我心中這份濃情

沒有東西能代

肯去承擔愛的苦痛

敢去面對未來

我是寧願改我生命

癡心也不願改

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZfNbs9ss2Y...feature=related

Edited March 26, 2009 by Life Searcher

Mandrake · March 26, 2009

可能爱真没有任何理由，理性。你未觉得只应你未遇到或未放开你的那颗心！

That's where your assumption is flawed. You are too full of yourself to think that you are the only one who has experience this so called true love and possesses courage. Many of us here have been through many relationships and have been through the stage you are in, and we have fought many battles.

When you are young... that's when your love is dreamy and defenseless... that's when you are most open and vulnerable. The people here are offering their experiences to open up your mind to look at the issue at different angles. Perhaps we are trying to be kind... or simply sharing our experience where it is applicable.

I myself is currently in a relationship for more then 12 years and I have also been through different stages, have dated and been with different kinds of characters. If you love blindly, that's where your success rate will be low. No one wants to love someone who is blind or needy, but someone who is awake, choosing to love someone knowingly and whole heartedly. If your lover is putting up defense or lying or whatsoever between you... tear them down to make your distance closer. If it he can't survive coming close to you, he is not the guy for you. Accepting him as a package with all his baggage is one thing, untruthfulness is not to be tolerated.

Life Searcher · March 26, 2009

对于“爱的信念”　。。。　你的看法又是什么？

我相信爱情必须从坚实的土怀中得到养分，慢慢成长，历经一段时间的默契与相处才能成长出一段真爱。。。或者能说理想的爱情。。。

这段情。。。已经在我的人生中留下一段美好的回忆。。。我的爱情观也变得充满了勇往直前的热血色彩。。。

能够一心一意的爱一个人，多么幸福。。。。。

－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－－

Edited March 26, 2009 by Life Searcher

Mandrake · March 26, 2009

Love relationship is a management of expectations of both parties and to bring values to each others life.

It is a commitment and a way of life, carved out by the two of you, governed by both your beliefs and values.

There are no standard rules in a relationship, both of you set the rules and live by it. It is built on trust.

Trust that is stronger then just mere fidelity. If you can trust your partner with your life and possessions... then you know, he is the one for you. You are rest assured that he will always be there for you. And in your heart, you have sworn to be there for him no matter the circumstances.

I do agree that if you can see it that way, that no matter the outcome, if the experience has brought colors into your memories, it is already worth the venture. It is definitely the right way to look at it. But that is just at entry level. I have so many good memories about my flings and ex lovers... do I consider them my true love? And now that you are in cloud 9 and your this love has not yet been tainted by a break up or betrayal that could happen in the future, you can say these things about bravery and going forward because you have Mr W and the power of love on your side. It's still good and you have spirit. But are you strong enough alone? I heard you say so many times that you can't imagine if Mr W were to leave you. I doubt you are that strong, as I see you escaping into your fantasy dreams and reason that one is helpless and blind in love.

What I am saying is, do your home work and be prepared if you are looking for a love relationship.

If you are just enjoying the fantasy and pleasure, then stop thinking and leave your logic behind the door....

in case you might wake up too early.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Mandrake

oralb · March 26, 2009

hmm... how did this thread became "Song that stir my emotion"?

Anyway I am joining the bandwargon

couldnt find her version, here a cover version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmRtMn7cuk

死心眼 - 彭佳慧

永远有多远想了一整夜

我才不管以后的路刮风又下雪

也许你没说你爱我

可是也没说不爱我

女人的时间少得很可怜

你说的很对可是我为了谁冒险

我不是神仙我也会抱怨

我只要一分钟你还拖延

爱情偷走我的理智你笑我死心眼

爱你浪费多少时间你不会发现

是你给我泪里的碱是你给我苦里的甜

是你带著我越过了极限

幸福住我的眼睛也让我死心眼

爱它莫名其妙出现我睡的很甜

是我忘了还有从前是我忘了还有明天

是我忘了说情人再见

(music)

嘿你笑我老爱掉眼泪

女人的泪是一种正当的防备

我可以飞我没有飞

是为了谁你知道为了谁

爱情偷走我的理智你笑我死心眼

爱你浪费多少时间你不会发现

是你给我泪里的碱是你给我苦里的甜

是你带著我越过了极限

幸福住我的眼睛也让我死心眼

爱它莫名其妙出现我睡的很甜

是我忘了还有从前是我忘了还有明天

是我忘了说情人再见

cock brand · March 26, 2009

That's where your assumption is flawed. You are too full of yourself to think that you are the only one who has experience this so called true love and possesses courage. Many of us here have been through many relationships and have been through the stage you are in, and we have fought many battles.
When you are young... that's when your love is dreamy and defenseless... that's when you are most open and vulnerable. The people here are offering their experiences to open up your mind to look at the issue at different angles. Perhaps we are trying to be kind... or simply sharing our experience where it is applicable.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially when you said "You are too full of yourself to think that you are the only one who has experience this so called true love and possesses courage."

LS's obstination and his naiveness towards love is obvious.

Many cheered him on and his reply to them showed he only wish to hear what he wanted to hear.

There are little that an outsider can do here; let him go through that baptism of fire and hopefully, he emerge a wiser person.

And for LS:

We are not here to shoot you down.

We saw a drowning man and we thought we just wanted to help.

Some may be more direct in their approach, like Gachi, while some try to illustrate their point differently.

Too many people are involved here: yourself, Mr W, Mrs W and Mr W lover of many years.

You are too self-centred; you keep telling people about your love, your unequal love, your selfless love, blah blah blah.

But thats only you, and you are only one of the 4 protagonists in this game.

Any one character make a drastic move, the storyline will change.

Got it?

I have been trying to illustrate the other characters in a different way, for reference.

You may think I'm trying to be funny or making fun of you.

No dear.

In a light heartedly way, yes; making fun of you, no.

Those illustrations however, could be real.

Some people wears many masks and you never know their real faces; you only see their mask.

We just mean you well.

Life Searcher · March 26, 2009

escaping into your fantasy dreams and reason that one is helpless and blind in love.
What I am saying is, do your home work and be prepared if you are looking for a love relationship.
If you are just enjoying the fantasy and pleasure, then stop thinking and leave your logic behind the door....
in case you might wake up too early.

Thanks Mandrake... appreciate your advice and will try to digest it... by the way, you mentioned about your flings and ex.... and did anyone of them let you think to settle down? Did anyone of them let you have the urge to love him? Did anyone of them give you the strength and will power to be loyal to?

I have to admit ... I am weaker in relationship.... I have been hurt before and have got up again to face a new love ahead... Well, Mr. W at least has the magic to let me have the courage to pick up this feeling again... I am pretty sensitive too... so if one day he don't love me anymore, I will feel it very easily... Also, Mr. W did not try to buy any gift frequently for me... except the diamond ring he ordered and fabricated for me... I don't really need any gits from him because I am able to afford it... and now what I really care is the concern and feel from him... is the eyes to eyes passionate feeling and the feeling of fortunate whenever he is around....

Life Searcher · March 26, 2009

I have been trying to illustrate the other characters in a different way, for reference.
You may think I'm trying to be funny or making fun of you.
No dear.
In a light heartedly way, yes; making fun of you, no.
Those illustrations however, could be real.
Some people wears many masks and you never know their real faces; you only see their mask.
We just mean you well.

Thanks dear Cock Brand... I understand there are many friends here try to tell me to look into different angles. I also know this R/S is very complex but I really can't let go of this relationship so suavely as many are able to do here... Maybe when something drastic really happen... I would have leave no choice but to surrender... at the present, I really ask myself many times and the answer is I still can't let go... I know I am stubborn or obstinate to many people here... I can feel that certain times too... perhaps like many of you have said "我跟本在自欺欺人。我太让爱冲昏了我的理性"... I just want to love him as long as I could...is this really wrong?

Life Searcher · March 26, 2009

死心眼 - 彭佳慧

Thank you very much for this song... I have never heard it before.. but the lyrics are well written and I do like it alot... This is my favorite part:

爱情偷走我的理智你笑我死心眼

爱你浪费多少时间你不会发现

是你给我泪里的碱是你给我苦里的甜

是你带著我越过了极限

幸福住我的眼睛也让我死心眼

爱它莫名其妙出现我睡的很甜

是我忘了还有从前是我忘了还有明天

是我忘了说情人再见

cock brand · March 26, 2009

死心眼 - unfortunately, you are the title of this song.

latterlim · March 26, 2009

This is indeed a special post which I have initially thought too lengthy for my reading. After reading through it, it made me do quite a bit of thinking. Especially, as all people will do, thinking of experiences related to oneself. It made me think of myself.

Quite apparently, Mr W loves you, LifeSearcher. But even though you have his heart, you do not have his body/time. Because of that, you feel totally upside down. Yes, totally upside down because this is not the way you envisioned your Love will turn out. I do not have any intention to put words in your mouth, nor analyse your situation for you. But this is what I feel: that this is not the kind of Love relationship you envisioned, nor expected, and maybe even, nor can accept ? Which is why you get very upset whenever he is not with you.

I just want to put in a suggestion to you, which I have adopted myself. Or at least I try to think it whenever I start feeling like you do, for I do, and am still doing. TRUST HIM. Trust that his love is only for you. Find inner peace in this Trust. And then, the loving, the relationship, will be easier, smoother. Frankly, I still do feel the inner struggles sometimes, but I think this helps... Love is nothing without Trust.

I am possibly in a similar situation as you are. I have experienced the exact feelings you have expressed throughout this thread... Feeling that my bf, who is also attached, can only give me minimal time. Time which compares too little to his partner, who obviously he has been with before me, even though his heart belongs to me. Well then, you may say, this relationship you are talking about may be much more complicated. However, I have one difference from you, LifeSearcher, I am married... to a woman, long before knowing him. Yet, I sometimes do feel exactly that same way with my bf, as you with Mr W. My internal struggles are immense! I am only kept sane by this simple mantra, TRUST.

justanotherchub · March 27, 2009

well well well....it's not new story in this circle. But, since u choose the game, then play it well. How? You should know how to handle this, or maybe you just dun want to do it bcos you might need to compromise certain things?

married guy and bi...always the poison in our circle. tasty, addicting, exciting...etc. Ask yourself, are you good enough in this?

The true is, not only married/bi in this circle having more than 1 lover. Some people can having 3 persons relationship, some people can have secret lover, sex buddy...etc etc.

But, I really despising those ppl who do not tell the other party that he is currently married/attached/seeing someone. Only do that once they have 'confirm' the victims have fall in.

Mandrake · March 27, 2009

Thanks Mandrake... appreciate your advice and will try to digest it... by the way, you mentioned about your flings and ex.... and did anyone of them let you think to settle down? Did anyone of them let you have the urge to love him? Did anyone of them give you the strength and will power to be loyal to?
I have to admit ... I am weaker in relationship.... I have been hurt before and have got up again to face a new love ahead... Well, Mr. W at least has the magic to let me have the courage to pick up this feeling again... I am pretty sensitive too... so if one day he don't love me anymore, I will feel it very easily... Also, Mr. W did not try to buy any gift frequently for me... except the diamond ring he ordered and fabricated for me... I don't really need any gits from him because I am able to afford it... and now what I really care is the concern and feel from him... is the eyes to eyes passionate feeling and the feeling of fortunate whenever he is around....

Of course I did encounter all you mentioned and met my partner whom I entrusted my life. I don't wish to elaborate my story as I do not want to dry my laundry here and let the skeletons fall out of my closet. But briefly share with you, who I am. I have been involved with married men and so I know the rules and how you feel.

I was a wild one... and it was not easy to keep me on a leash. But eventually with age, experiences... I have mellowed down, and now I am more preoccupied with finding higher meanings in life. I also have a strong character and not easily hurt. When I was betrayed with unfaithfulness, I don't just get down.... I will get even (after several warnings if he still doesn't stop). I know many will not agree and say I am revengeful. But I believe in causing the same hurt in order to show the other person, the pain he is causing. I am the kind of person who rather die knowing, then live in denial. I am always serious in love. When I am in a relationship, I love fiercely without holding back as I know I am capable of standing up again no matter how I fall. No matter how deeply I love, if I am taken for granted or with contempt, I will gather strength to leave. My pride keeps me sane. I have no fear where relationships are concerned and to experience love is my biggest quest in life. Like I have said earlier... what can we loose anyway, our lives?

I hope you understand that I am not accusing Mr. W to be a playboy. I am just cautioning you if he could he one.

I understand that Mr. W is a special person to you as he revived your heart of stone.

I am just advising you to protect it by putting some fence around it... so that you might not be hurt like you were before.

I am glad to read that you have a sensitive nature defense system. Remember to take it's heed.

Keep it sharp and don't brush it aside out of fear of the truth. The truth is very important. Face it and eventually, what is yours is yours, it will return to you even if it were to be lost. If you run away from the truth... what is yours now is not really yours... and when it's lost, it lost forever.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Mandrake

Life Searcher · March 27, 2009

死心眼 - unfortunately, you are the title of this song.

ha ha... actually I do agreed... I am...

Life Searcher · March 27, 2009

This is indeed a special post which I have initially thought too lengthy for my reading. After reading through it, it made me do quite a bit of thinking. Especially, as all people will do, thinking of experiences related to oneself. It made me think of myself.

Dear Latterlim,

Actually, I am proud and envy your TRUST for love... a lesson I think many should learn from...

For your case and feeling, I think your situation is perhaps slightly better than mine. 1st of all, your BF only has another partner and you are married too... so to your BF, he might think is only fair that he has a accompany from others when you are not with him... I am sure you have to spend most of the important dates and festivals at home with your wife rather than him right? Anyway, I think the both of you have msut have TURSTED each other alot to make this relationship work for so many years... I am not complaining as I think I have my own freedom and happiness in this R/S.

Is beautiful to hear his heart is with you and I do believe your heart is with him too... did you ever thought of making a bolder move for him?

Life Searcher · March 27, 2009

But, I really despising those ppl who do not tell the other party that he is currently married/attached/seeing someone. Only do that once they have 'confirm' the victims have fall in.

Perhaps.... all gay relationship started off casually and thoought is pointless to tell others their status... and only when your feel gets stronger... you start to worry the other party may find out and they need you to understand thier situation or feeling....

Yes.. is not easy to accept initially... but when you think further.... does it matter? does it really matter?

Life Searcher · March 27, 2009

I am glad to read that you have a sensitive nature defense system. Remember to take it's heed.
Keep it sharp and don't brush it aside out of fear of the truth. The truth is very important. Face it and eventually, what is yours is yours, it will return to you even if it were to be lost. If you run away from the truth... what is yours now is not really yours... and when it's lost, it lost forever.

Thanks thanks Mandrake... great of you to share with us your experience... and the matures here are all young once which all have different experiences and views on life... some just search for fun and more fun... while others need more than just fun with emotional exchange with thier love ones.... Can't really say who is wrong or who is right... probably is what you want and what I want...

That is why you get to see people in gay sauna just to get a quick sex and disappear immdiately after that.... coulf give you very cold shoulder or etc... while some others make friends... exchange contact... hug each other and etc...

I fully agreed with you that all of us should keep our sensitivity. I won't set up a defense system as I feel love should not have a define boundary or dept... unless I feel something or the feeling is a miss... then I will revise and review my thoughts...

I will be brave enought to face it and tell myself I have tried... and if I failed... at least I have tried and given my best effort in this R/S....

Life Searcher · March 27, 2009

Version II
他又比你年轻,天文地理,什么都会.
学精一点吧,不然一脚把你踢开.
来,帮我捶捶背,累死了.
Hope this will make you feel better.

Nope... why should I be happy?? perhaps you will be happier as you have just manage to put a joke on someone's wound...

oralb · March 27, 2009

死心眼 - unfortunately, you are the title of this song.

hehehe... why you think I choose this song?

LS:

you will find a little 死心眼 (stubborness) in all of us. there is no right or wrong in a relationship. It is whether you can or cannot accept it.

A wise man once told me:

Hope that I have the strength to change what i can change

the courage to accept those that I cannot change

and the wisdon to know the difference

tell me, do you have to strength to change what you dont like?

if not do you have the courage to accept them?

if all else failed, do you have the wisdom to walk away?

March 27, 2009

Nope... why should I be happy?? perhaps you will be happier as you have just manage to put a joke on someone's wound...

Life Searcher, i don't know why you will think that cock brand is making a fun of you, unless what he say is totally true & you know he never make out any story or telling lies, else where your wound from? I thought you very happy with Mr W & he totally love you like what you told us, you believe totally in him & trust him completely, so why you feel sad when his heart is at your side? i wonder... Unless you cheating yourself & you know that deep in your heart, he saying sweet talk to you, his partner & maybe those people he meeting outside still even now, fear no more if Mr W is really that decent & pure like what you telling us

harylok · March 27, 2009

恋情应该是一种静谧的享受, 没必要大事宣扬 ...

真情则需要有深邃的思索, 方能逐步酝酿成爱的真啼 ...

LS那沉不住气的自言其说和那不痛不痒的爱情宣言, 给我的感觉只有喧闹, 欠缺感动, 没有一点启示作用 ...

LS 的字行里也暴露他那矛盾且不稳定的情绪. 或许就如LS所追求的”快乐”, 那种”乐”或 “热”度, 一晃即逝 ....

我一向来不看好那种常把”至情不喻”挂在咀边的恋情 ...

Mr.W & LS 在处理他们感情的手法, 从始至今, 在他俩言谈里, 我看不到有任何建设性的东西, 除了空洞且遥不可及的诺言, 充其量就象风花雪月的歌曲 ...

LS完全误解 “今宵有酒今宵醉” 的原义. 或许他早已迷醉在这段摇晃的恋情中. 而我却醉笑这位自许聪明的LS, 其实是个迷惑的人, 就如现实中那些典型的PLU ...

走不出匡框的悲惰者, 也将成了我们遗忘的人.

有机缘的话, 让我请LS & MR.W喝杯”将进酒”吧 ...

Hary,

只有自己为自己喝采, 只有自己为自己悲衷 ...

Edited March 28, 2009 by harylok

cock brand · March 27, 2009

Nope... why should I be happy?? perhaps you will be happier as you have just manage to put a joke on someone's wound...

Don't be upset honey.

As I've mentioned earlier, I'm not making fun of you.

None of the things I wrote insulted you or meant to hurt you in any way.

And wounds, what wounds; there no wounds so far, maybe in future if you continue.

It was meant to suggest the personality of the other 2 protagonists.

In 2 versions.

There may be some exaggerations in the illustration but are you so sure they are not something like this?

You are not sure, right?

And you are worried and upset that some part I wrote could be true.

Cos you will never ever know how they behave when they are together.

Sorry if you don't get my point.

JakeTanner · March 27, 2009

After almost 3 decades as a 'practising' gay man, I have to say this:
I always avoid MARRIED MEN, BISEXUALS and those in a relationship...I dont want to be hurt. So these men had never occupy any corner in my heart/life before. I realised that there is always this lingering thought that he will return to his 'ORIGINAL' partner and we, the loser!

just want to add that there is nothing wrong with dating a bisexual or married men cos i have seen happy endings: the guys divorce the wife or end the relationship with the girl and many are just as committed to the new (gay) relationships.

ignorance and discriminatory comments (like these) you made about other groups of people must stop.

JT

-----

take my advice but dont listen to a word i say...

cock brand · March 27, 2009

恋情应该是一种静谧的享受, 没必要大事宣扬 ...
真情则需要有深邃的思索, 方能逐步酝酿成爱的真啼 ...
LS那沉不住气的自言其说和那不痛不痒的爱情宣言, 给我的感觉只有喧闹, 欠缺感动, 没有一点启示作用 ...
LS 的字行里也暴露他那矛盾且不稳定的情绪. 或许就如LS所追求的”快乐”, 那种”乐”或 “热”度, 一晃即逝 ....

完全同意你的看法。

开始觉得这位LS兄有一点扮可怜，搏同情；无病呻吟

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

A wise man once told me:
Hope that I have the strength to change what i can change
the courage to accept those that I cannot change
and the wisdon to know the difference
tell me, do you have to strength to change what you dont like?
if not do you have the courage to accept them?
if all else failed, do you have the wisdom to walk away?

Dear Oralb,

I do admit in some part of my mind I am 死心眼。。。 like what you have said... eveyone will have that feel or attitude at times and more even in a relationship.

I can only say... I have the courage to face the current situation and I am learning to accept the circumstances. Well... for me I think I started to see or feel there are changes... although slow.... I do feel it...

If after all I have done and I still can't be with him... I shall accept the faith and whatever comes along... Life still has to goes on.... That us why I choose the name: Life Searcher...

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZfNbs9ss2Y...feature=related

Life Searcher, i don't know why you will think that cock brand is making a fun of you, unless what he say is totally true & you know he never make out any story or telling lies, else where your wound from? I thought you very happy with Mr W & he totally love you like what you told us, you believe totally in him & trust him completely, so why you feel sad when his heart is at your side? i wonder... Unless you cheating yourself & you know that deep in your heart, he saying sweet talk to you, his partner & maybe those people he meeting outside still even now, fear no more if Mr W is really that decent & pure like what you telling us

Dear Snowball & CockBrand,

My meaning of the "wound" refers to his partner... what I am trying to say is even eventually Mr. W choose to be with me... we will try to minimize the hurt... and definitely I won't insult or try to joke with it... most of all, I will not feel proud of anything... I know this could be selfish to his partner... is never my intention to hurt anyone....but I can only say sorry... because if I can be with Mr. W, I will do it...

插曲: 肯去承擔愛

演唱: 甄妮

早已明知對他的愛

開始就不應該

我欲願將一世交換

他一次真意對待

我是寧可抛去生命

癡心決不願改

爲了他甘心去忍受

人間一切悲哀

在我心中這份濃情

沒有東西能代

肯去承擔愛的苦痛

敢去面對未來

我是寧願改我生命

癡心也不願改

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

恋情应该是一种静谧的享受, 没必要大事宣扬 ...

重一开始，我就只是想在这网站抒发我对Mr. W 的感觉。。。也记录下我们的经历。因为当时真的很矛盾也迷失所以想问他人的经历。。。因为在那时没有一个能让我说出心声，所以才记得有这一个网站可以让我跟一些在这里的朋友分享。。。你们让我听了那么多。。每个人的意见多种说纠纷。。。可是也因为写了，听了那么多，无论赞成或不认同的网友，我还是会感谢您们。。。因为我学了很多。。。在这反而让我学会变得比较面对眼前的一切。。。也其实让我更明白和坚信我对他的爱。。。

眼前的路虽然还有很长的一段也可能会在途中失败。。。但此刻的我真的想试着走一走。。。

cock brand · March 28, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZfNbs9ss2Y...feature=related
Dear Snowball & CockBrand,
My meaning of the "wound" refers to his partner... what I am trying to say is even eventually Mr. W choose to be with me... we will try to minimize the hurt... and definitely I won't insult or try to joke with it... most of all, I will not feel proud of anything... I know this could be selfish to his partner... is never my intention to hurt anyone....but I can only say sorry... because if I can be with Mr. W, I will do it...

Ah......so thats it.

So my Version II could be closer to the truth.

And you are not comfortable with it.

For those who do not read chinese, heres a simple translation to my earlier tongue-in-cheek posting:

Characters :

Mr W

No.2 - Mr W's lover of many years

No.3 - LS

Version I

I was thinking, what would No.2 do if he knows about the existence of No. 3 ?

When he ask Mr W about it, how would he reply?

I guess Mr W may reply like this :

"My sweet babe, don't be suspicious.

You still don't trust me after all these years?

He is just a fun buddy, nothing more.

I had tried to end this affair with him, but each time I see his doleful face, I my heart soften.

And I feel he is clinging on to me for dear life, not so easy to sent him away.

Only you are my little precious, and your skill in bed is unparalleled.

You should know, new may be good but nothing beats old wine. (dont know how to direct translate 新欢虽好，但旧爱难舍)

Believe me, I will not leave you.

You should know very well my feelings for you.

Its been a week now, lets not waste time, come on baby........"

Version II

I guess Mr W may also reply like this:

"Stop nagging lah.

That frumpy woman at home already been nagging for the whole week, so sian already.

With me for so many years already, you still don't know my character meh?

Just having some flings outside is no big deal ok?.

Look at you, just like a dead fish.

He is different; so full of ideas and only knows how to please me.

One moment he is a little pussy cat,

Another moment he can turn into a slut.

I am thrilled to bits.

And he is younger than you, and so intelligent, knows everything under the sun.

Get wise !

Or else I'll just kick you away.

Now, give me a nice massage, I am so tired."

Different version, different enactment showing possible portrayal of the 3 characters.

Will the real Mr W please stand up.

And for you guys out here, what do you think?

Edited March 28, 2009 by cock brand

cock brand · March 28, 2009

My meaning of the "wound" refers to his partner... what I am trying to say is even eventually Mr. W choose to be with me... we will try to minimize the hurt... and definitely I won't insult or try to joke with it... most of all, I will not feel proud of anything... I know this could be selfish to his partner... is never my intention to hurt anyone....but I can only say sorry... because if I can be with Mr. W, I will do it...

我的天啊！

搞了大半天，原来你才是那狐狸精！

唉，开始同情2号了。

跟了这老头这么多年，换来的是被一脚踢开的命运。

还是为了一个才认识几个月的小妖精。

那你真的是他妈的猫哭老鼠假慈悲

那你流的也真的是鳄鱼眼泪了。

不知一路来，你伤心什么，哭什么？？？

真的是莫名其妙。

老头这么喜弃旧图新，当他遇到4号时，

2号就是你的好榜样。

你也最好小心2号被逼虎跳墙，来个反败为胜噢。

你好自为之吧。

latterlim · March 28, 2009

我的天啊！
搞了大半天，原来你才是那狐狸精！
唉，开始同情2号了。
跟了这老头这么多年，换来的是被一脚踢开的命运。
还是为了一个才认识几个月的小妖精。
那你真的是他妈的猫哭老鼠假慈悲
那你流的也真的是鳄鱼眼泪了。
不知一路来，你伤心什么，哭什么？？？
真的是莫名其妙。
老头这么喜弃旧图新，当他遇到4号时，
2号就是你的好榜样。
你也最好小心2号被逼虎跳墙，来个反败为胜噢。
你好自为之吧。

It's not nice to call people names. We all have differing ideas, experiences and personalities. What we voice here would probably be a mere reflection of what we thought most apt there and then. I suppose what you originally said was really meant as a joke to lighten the somber mood of this thread. What LS replied was also a natural reaction to the mockery toned into your message.

A forum is a platform for us to express our views and opinions on topics varied. However, a forum is also a public domain. Thus, use of hurtful or blunt words may bring unto others pain and suffering. Use of names and personal attacks would not help in the sharing this forum is meant for.

This is a very enlightening thread, which many have participated. Let's not descend into a name-calling situation. I once heard this "说者无意，听者有心". Let's encourage sensitivity. Thanks.

latterlim · March 28, 2009

Dear Latterlim,
Actually, I am proud and envy your TRUST for love... a lesson I think many should learn from...
For your case and feeling, I think your situation is perhaps slightly better than mine. 1st of all, your BF only has another partner and you are married too... so to your BF, he might think is only fair that he has a accompany from others when you are not with him... I am sure you have to spend most of the important dates and festivals at home with your wife rather than him right? Anyway, I think the both of you have msut have TURSTED each other alot to make this relationship work for so many years... I am not complaining as I think I have my own freedom and happiness in this R/S.
Is beautiful to hear his heart is with you and I do believe your heart is with him too... did you ever thought of making a bolder move for him?

LS, I really thank you very much for replying directly to my post. Well, I must say that I Trust him... lots... However, I also long for him... always... Me being a married man, many may expect me to be the one enjoying 齐人之福. But seriously, I am not. For I am constantly torn. Again... many may think that I am constantly torn between my family and him. But instead it may that I am torn because of him and his long-time partner. The question might be whether we can both giveup and face up to our truths ? Well, we may, but when ? For a reason or another, the time cannot be now... may not be in the near future... I do not know when... Maybe I should have made a bolder move for him, but I have made bold moves and promises already...

You may identify my situation as better than yours, but I suppose it is always a different view from the inside than from the outside. Nevertheless, I would say we both experienced similar feelings, and I identified with yours. As such, I am learning from your messages as much as others' advises to you. I see in you, initially, the confusion, indecision, insecurity and eruption. Now, I feel you have subsided, calmed, mellowed and realised. I feel happy for you too. Indeed, we should continue to be strong and Trust our loved-ONE wholeheartedly. Someday, our dreams will be fulfilled.

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

Thanks Latterlim for your comments below... appreciate that...

Cockbrand, why do you need to call people names and put so much assumptions on it when you do not even know the entire situation... also you just give so many comments even not knowing the post / thread from the start.... are you feeling particularly able to satisfy your ego whenever you call people names or making fun of others??? What are you trying to achieve from here?? Perhaps a true love and feel are what you need to balance your thoughts...

Also I did mentioned before.. any situation can happen... I will respect Mr. W's final decision... However, I do have confidence & Trust for him and willing to wait for him... he has done alot more and has fulfilled all his promises so far....

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

LS, I really thank you very much for replying directly to my post. Well, I must say that I Trust him... lots... However, I also long for him... always... Me being a married man, many may expect me to be the one enjoying 齐人之福. But seriously, I am not. For I am constantly torn. Again... many may think that I am constantly torn between my family and him.
I feel happy for you too. Indeed, we should continue to be strong and Trust our loved-ONE wholeheartedly. Someday, our dreams will be fulfilled.

Dear Latterlim,

Yes I agreed that many who will see you as 齐人之福 but many will not know or understand the feeling to balance between your family and bf... tormented feeling is probably you miss your BF so much and yet can't call or see him due to family commitment or whenever you think of him having good time with his partner.... Is really normal to feel unbalance or jealousy involve.... the worst when you can't do anything about it ... except to accept the situation.. .You will ask yourself 相逢恨晚 right?.... I also tell or encourage myself... that it is never too late.... as we at least have finally met instead of no chance to meet in this life.... In fact, I told today that I have been waiting for my Love (him) .... my dream man for more than 8 years since I last had one.... after a hurtful break up....

Yes... if only 2 of you are willing to take an additional step...things and situation will look better. However, time is a crucial factor! Also, we all need to make sure all these bold move or commitment should be voluntarily and make from the heart... I am sure your BF will be able to feel your sincerity and your love for him…. I can feel from Mr. W too… he too expressed and told me his past and etc… which I fully understood and accepted it…. I believe are the TRUST and FAITH behind our relationship has turned me to have the courage to face the situation and accept the circumstances.

I too wish your bf and you to believe this true Love and have faith in it… I believe our happy days will be near so long we have the faith in it….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks4g-qCBqKg...feature=related

oralb · March 28, 2009

LS, now that I know a little more about the relationship, here's another song for you

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/B8xsQbQysw8/

三角志歌手：卢巧音

曲：雷颂德词：黄伟文

没有这件事防碍我们

难道我和你又会一样

就算不是她也有问题吧

早该分开不该怪她

即使跟踪你来临案发现场

牢牢看守著你提防你搭上这一个她

下个她都会趁我看不到诱惑你

明白如你要这样易变心哪到我害怕

就算她跟你有段情我也为你高兴

用第三者身份见证最不可靠是爱情

我们无人能得胜再温馨

仍不够耐性捱得到第四者煞风景

当初喜欢你其时你有别人

完全都因为我才完结过去抛低了她

下个她不过接替我当天那位置

情外情转了对象别要太惊讶

没有她都会有别人你我避免不过

混乱间将彼此错过有几多故事最后

爱人仍然同一个看清楚

谁都背叛过谁亦曾被骗过

不知道伴侣再换就更好

还是越来越退步

能让路还是再睹就算再三上诉

你争我夺投进谁怀抱

谁话爱你注定好心好报

第四者跟你有段情我也为你高兴

外遇万千灿烂像繁星可惜那并发症

我们无人能得胜

再温馨仍不够耐性

捱得到第五者煞风景

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

LS, now that I know a little more about the relationship, here's another song for you
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/B8xsQbQysw8/

hum.... but I think these 2 songs are better to describe my feel...

未来没法计算

未來沒法計算

曲 : 陳頌紅

詞 : 陳頌紅

編 : 郭熾賢

難過什么難過亦不能改寫結果

不可以重頭活過最后也

最后仍是我哭我還有什么

還盼什么還想得太多

倘他世仍存在你我記住了

記住年月再長都要等我

未來沒法計算相處亦短

卻是已經深深深深愛戀

陪著你我方感完全

即使開始注定會心酸

感覺像已隔世難以自制

愛在每天加深深不見底

塵俗里里面太多拘泥

未明白愛是放不低

若這世界曾天暗月淡

共對每刻能貪得再貪

與你隔一線間竟捉不緊半晚

留住你卻是這樣這么難

念挂你常幽逐眉眼

愿我可時空中往返

與你這般記憶這般不平凡

你令我發現這日這天更藍

留低了驚嘆

Life Searcher · March 28, 2009

I feel happy for you too. Indeed, we should continue to be strong and Trust our loved-ONE wholeheartedly. Someday, our dreams will be fulfilled.

Dear Latterlim,

This song is for your BF and my Mr. W...

我永不放弃

對你，我永不放棄

曲 : ALBERT HAMMOND

詞 : 陳頌紅

編 : 郭熾賢

(男)誰共誰一起緣份冥冥之中

連于一起無論在那處都可跟你

在頃刻之間縮窄距離

(女)海角異地猶幸兩顆心纏于一起

遺忘掉世界都也不理

地老與天荒總有傳奇*

(女)愛是愛是奧妙永不可預測

(男)愛是愛是那樣從沒講理

(男)就算要我跳出天與地不退避

(女)惟以后能以后讓結局完美(相約等你)*

(合)跟你一起承受了几多仍不放棄

仍期待一天一切很美在抱擁之中超脫限期

Repeat *

(男)跟你一起而十個世紀未會舍棄

微妙世界內亦不可分隔異地

同渡每天喜與悲

tong · March 28, 2009

Life Searcher

很佩服你的EQ

面对众多不同的回应

依然如此的温文儒雅

敬佩。。敬佩。。

当然这世界原本就存在着各种不同的声音

所以我们也应该坦然地去面对

能得到祝福的爱情

固然欣慰

不能获得认同的结合

我们也不应该退缩

同志们的生活方式

不也得不到大多数异性恋的认可吗？

可是同志朋友们。。有谁退缩了。。

每个人都有自己要去克服的问题

每个人都有他需要的生活。。包括爱情。。

事出必有因。。

爱情也有它的赏味期。。

所以它始终会过期。。

人在热恋的时候是最真的时刻。。

可是时间一长。。人就会变。。

变是永远的不变。。

是变好。。还是变坏。。

这是一个爱人的人。。他最无助。。最无能为力去改变的。。

所以。。珍惜你能拥有他的每一刻。。

其他的以后再说吧。。

不然叫你现在离开他。。

谁也不能保证你会找到一个比他更契合的。。

更赏心悦目的。。是不是？

如今的爱情应该有它存在的任何模式

可以是。。一对一。。一对二。。一对三。。甚至是二对二。。等等等。。

不然的话。。怎么会有（open ）的存在。。你说是吗？

只要当事人喜欢就好。。谁也改变不了。。

还有。。很少人会每天吃同样的菜。。

还有。。很少人会每天穿同一件衣服。。

这是眼见的事实。。

所以。。你的心理建设要充分的加强才是真的。。

这一点。。相信你也能做得到。。

到目前为止。。赞成的。。反对的声音都有。。

这对你来说何尝不是一件好事

因为这使你更清楚知道自己要的是什么。。

当然。。任何决定你都会有一定代价的付出。。

加油。。。。

Edited March 29, 2009 by gachi_muchi

cock brand · March 29, 2009

Cockbrand, why do you need to call people names and put so much assumptions on it when you do not even know the entire situation... also you just give so many comments even not knowing the post / thread from the start.... are you feeling particularly able to satisfy your ego whenever you call people names or making fun of others??? What are you trying to achieve from here?? Perhaps a true love and feel are what you need to balance your thoughts...

You should know very well that once you had decided to post in here, there will be readers and you will get also get replies, all sorts of replies.

So why did you do it?

Because you want others to know your story.

And now people are sending in their views.

What kind of views and replies you will get?

All sorts.

Some are against it.

Some thought that you are dumb and stupid.

Some suggested you go for counselling.

Some even encouraged you to let go and move on.

Of cos, some would cheer you on.........go go go!

Some would think you are the greatest lover of the century while

some thought that you are in such a pitiful situation, they offer their sympathies.

But unfortunately, you mind is already fixed long ago.

Mr W must be mine!

Nevermind if that silly No.2 decide to be the first to jump into Marina Bay to drown himself.

I don't care.

Your selfishness is now at full trottle - don't block my way!

You want to win.

And you wanted it badly.

You refuse to be a loser.

Hence you only want to hear nice compliments and soothing remarks.

Those who send condolence are most welcomed.

You just want to garner people to stand by you.

So you told your story.

But it is also a one sided story （你的一面之词）

Your version.

Some will believe it wholeheartedly.

Some will have reasons to doubt it.

How much I want to believe this story is my prerogative.

My criticism is based on my interpretation of the events unfolding in the story.

Its got nothing to do with my love life babe.

The title of this tread is interestingly "Hurtful Gay Life......?"

Hurtful?

Whos hurt?

Who will be hurt?

Who is hurting who?

Maybe I should write something soon about "hurtful gay life " here.

Watch out for my coming posting.

As what 李大傻, the late storyteller's parting line (read in cantonese please) :

如果想知道剧情发展落去系点样,请下次再继续收听啦,再会.

Edited March 29, 2009 by cock brand

harylok · March 29, 2009

...
But unfortunately, you mind is already fixed long ago.
Mr W must be mine!
.....
Hence you only want to hear nice compliments and soothing remarks.
Those who send condolence are most welcomed.
You just want to garner people to stand by you.
So you told your story.
But it is also a one sided story （你的一面之词）
Your version.
Some will believe it wholeheartedly.
Some will have reasons to doubt it.
.......
The title of this tread is interestingly "Hurtful Gay Life......?"
Hurtful?
Whos hurt?
Who will be hurt?
Who is hurting who?

Actually , I am thinking along the same line as quoted by Cock Brand ...

Maybe this thread should be closed by now & LS can create a new one called "Happy Gay Life?!" instead as he seems to picture himself rather happy & contented with how thing is progressing now for him ...

But I do observe that LS doesn't address nor comment ("Siam"?!) much about some of the questions (Supposingly to his disadvantages?!) raised by some of readers ...including mine. Perhaps, "All Negatives one" will be auto-filtered off?! : <_<

All those supportive & "Encourage" comments are so welcomed by LS and yet those who try to "Challenge" him, mostly ended up with LS's usual "Counter-questioning back" attitude. In this aspect, the only acknowledgement from LS is nothing but a "Thank You All".

btw: Too much Love lyrics to support one stands can be lame at times <_<

Still, with so much postings from LS, I somehow still find LS world is clouded /w grey sky ...

Hary

.. R u emotionally sensible?

Edited March 29, 2009 by harylok

like wind · March 29, 2009

Dear Life searcher,

I think you have long found your answer already, and you should now go on the journey by yourself.

If you still want some listeners, there will always be some here anytime, including me.

Regards,

LW

===============================================================================

Dear Cock Brand and others,

I don't think adding any sad and hurtful gay life story here will alter Life Searcher's thinking. Because if it does, I will have already add mine here. What LS want at the posting is listeners as he want to share his current love with someone. So, it really doesn't matter if we oppose or support for his love because in the end, it's his choice. Just like I have closed up myself is my choice. So, only time will tell everything...

Regards,

LW

castaway · March 29, 2009

I think Cock Brand is Mr.W 's boyfriend :rolleyes:

I am so jealousssssssssss now :whistle: hihihi

AlphaOne · March 29, 2009

我的天啊！
搞了大半天，原来你才是那狐狸精！
唉，开始同情2号了。
跟了这老头这么多年，换来的是被一脚踢开的命运。
还是为了一个才认识几个月的小妖精。
那你真的是他妈的猫哭老鼠假慈悲
那你流的也真的是鳄鱼眼泪了。
不知一路来，你伤心什么，哭什么？？？
真的是莫名其妙。
老头这么喜弃旧图新，当他遇到4号时，
2号就是你的好榜样。
你也最好小心2号被逼虎跳墙，来个反败为胜噢。
你好自为之吧。

大红灯高高挂

封灯

Edited March 29, 2009 by gachi_muchi

Life Searcher · March 31, 2009

Life Searcher
很佩服你的EQ
面对众多不同的回应
依然如此的温文儒雅
敬佩。。敬佩。。
当然。。任何决定你都会有一定代价的付出。。
加油。。。。

可能人各有志吧！每个人都有自己的看法或意见。我无须让他们认同我的看法或我对这感情的看法。

像你说所的一样吧，赞成我的也好，反对，不看好我们的爱情的也好。。。这一切一切的都其实让我想了非常多偏也思考了很久。。。我也更加知道自己要的是什么。。。我也知道无论任何结果都会有一定的代价。。。我会勇敢的面对。。。

Edited March 31, 2009 by Life Searcher

Life Searcher · March 31, 2009

You should know very well that once you had decided to post in here, there will be readers and you will get also get replies, all sorts of replies.
So why did you do it?
Because you want others to know your story.
And now people are sending in their views.
What kind of views and replies you will get?
All sorts.
Some are against it.
Some thought that you are dumb and stupid.
Some suggested you go for counselling.
Some even encouraged you to let go and move on.
Of cos, some would cheer you on.........go go go!
Some would think you are the greatest lover of the century while
some thought that you are in such a pitiful situation, they offer their sympathies.
size=2]如果想知道剧情发展落去系点样,请下次再继续收听啦,再会.

I have never complaint about anyones comments or feedback and each time I also tried to answer most of them...

The last one I replied to your post is mainly requesting you not to call or give anyone "names" but if you still insist... is really up to you lor..

Life Searcher · March 31, 2009

Dear Life searcher,
I think you have long found your answer already, and you should now go on the journey by yourself.
If you still want some listeners, there will always be some here anytime, including me.
Regards,
LW
===============================================================================

Thanks LW... I mainly thought letting out your feelngs here is a good way to release our emotion... and perhaps knowing there are many here who have the same experience to share too....

Life Searcher · March 31, 2009

Actually , I am thinking along the same line as quoted by Cock Brand ...
Maybe this thread should be closed by now & LS can create a new one called "Happy Gay Life?!" instead as he seems to picture himself rather happy & contented with how thing is progressing now for him ...
But I do observe that LS doesn't address nor comment ("Siam"?!) much about some of the questions (Supposingly to his disadvantages?!) raised by some of readers ...including mine. Perhaps, "All Negatives one" will be auto-filtered off?! :
All those supportive & "Encourage" comments are so welcomed by LS and yet those who try to "Challenge" him, mostly ended up with LS's usual "Counter-questioning back" attitude. In this aspect, the only acknowledgement from LS is nothing but a "Thank You All".
Hary
.. R u emotionally sensible?

Well... I am not sure what questions have I "siam" or tryng to filter... in fact if yes,.. I would have not replied to many people here... anyway, sometimes if I miss out anything or reply.... I don't see that as a big concern right? in fact there are some who ask questions which does not related to this post... and I don't see what is the purpose of answering... sometimes 清者自清 - not sure correct chinese wordings or not...

abang · March 31, 2009

"God has not promise skies always blue.." was one of the songs I sang when I was young and very pious then.

Regardless of gender and sexual orientiation, life has not always been a bed of roses.

The one you loved may be taken and if he tells you that they are now as platonic as ever

他们的感情已淡如水。。。

我们已经无爱，无性。。。

Could this be his excuse to lure you into a physical and/or emotional trap?

问你一句：你能当狐狸精吗？你能担保他日后不会用同一个方式对你的狐狸精吗？

Are you able to bear the pain in the future if he tries the same trick with someone younger/cuter?

三人行-痛苦啊！

Three's a crowd!

理智一点。。。快离开吧。。。。

Be civic, be rational... leave him now and severe all ties as the love triangle is harming you too!

castaway · March 31, 2009

Dear Life Searcher ... I think you should change to LOVE searcher :rolleyes:

Don't think too much in negative way about everyone's posts here ... everybody is just trying to understand you, to help you in a good way or trying to give their opinions ... BUT as I said, we are different individual human beings, we experience life in different way, we came from different background ... SO keep writing and updating to us about your incompleted LOVE ... BUT for whatever happens, remember to behave as mature man

Some have topic of Bareback, of Autom Cum ... :yuk: ... so there is nothing wrong with your Topic, it is really Hurtful LOVE, of course ... who wants to share LOVE with 2 other parties ... I can't even think of sharing my boy friend's dick with others, not talking about LOVE yet :whistle: ... it is impossible to me ... you are such open-minded guy :B) ... I "admire" you :clap:

Nobody here can truly understand what is going on with your 4some relationship, only you are the INSIDER ... may be you haven't told us everything ... so may be we haven't understood it ...

BUT I just found that you haven't talked much about sex with Mr.W :oops: sorry, just curious ... do both of you just ride bus ? Did you or him "ride" each other instead ? :rolleyes:

It sounds "recessive" romantic to me :clap: ... may be we can call "Love in the time of recession" , part II of "Love in the time of Cholera" :rolleyes:

Through your story, I hope when I reach to Mr.W's age, I found an "innocent" boy like you

Finally, on behalf of Uncle Community, we wish you a completed LOVE

cock brand · March 31, 2009

I think Cock Brand is Mr.W 's boyfriend
I am so jealousssssssssss now :whistle: hihihi

No lah. You need not be jealous. I'm not Mr W's boyfriend.

No chance cos I don't like old man. :whistle:

But come to think of it, what would Mr W's other boyfriend of 10 years do if he gets to read all the posting here?

It would be interesting.

If he ever write in his story, I guess it might be something like this :

I had known my current boyfriend for more than 10 years.

For all these years, he had been very loving to me and treated me very affectionately.

I have no complain at all.

He would visit me on every saturday and we would make very passionate love.

He promised me that he would love me forever.

I believed him wholeheartedly. I could see in his eyes that he is not lying to me.

I thought I was the most fortunately person on earth.

In the beginning, we did have some problems.

After we were together for a few months, he told me that he has a family.

I was so shocked.

But he told me that he don'y love his wife anymore and I will be his only love, now and forever.

I felt guilty.

Am I a homewrecker?

What would Mrs W to do me if she finds out?

I was so lost.

Should I leave him now?

Everytime when we make love, I would imagine her sleeping by herself all alone, so sad.

But Mr W reassured me that I will be his last love and I could see from his face that he meant it.

I love Mr W too much that I decided to be selfish and just immense myself totally in his love.

And I thought, maybe I should do something for her.

Maybe I should give her my whole collection of dildoes now that I don't need them anymore. And I believe she'll love that pink battery operated one that ressemble Mr W.

But I can't cos I don't know where she stay.

About 2 weeks ago, Mr W broke an earthshattering news to me.

He had met a new boyfriend; hes young, intelligent and has a good job too.

He say this guy said he love him very much and will die if he l(Mr W) leaves him.

Just after 2 weeks? OMG!

My knees went weak, I wanted to throw up, I nearly died.

10 YEARS

I had given this man 10 years of my life; MY BEST 10 YEARS!!

And now?

What happened to all his promises? All the sweet words?

Why now, when I have already lost 10 of my best years.

I cried and cried and cried.

I asked myself WHY over and over again.

Is it because I getting old now?

Is it because we got nothing much to talk now except about sex?

Is it because I refuse to play doctor and nurse with him?

Is it because he wants to be a pure btm now?

Is it because he kena black magic by that bloody bitch.

Why why why???

Should I accept this hands down?

Should I fight back?

Should I make that idiot an eunuch while he is sleeping?

Should I go and slap the bloody bitch until cannot talk for weeks?

What can I do to get my man back?

What can I do to get rid of that @^%#@ forever?

I don't want to be a loser.